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lemon tek

Saudações, povo do CM

Estou sumido faz um tempo, mas estou sempre rondando o fórum em busca de novos aprendizados e coisas interessantes. E falando em coisas interessantes, li em fóruns gringos sobre uma coisa que não achei aqui no CM : Lemon Tek.

Já fucei muito o fórum, usei a busca e tudo mais e não achei nada sobre isso. O mais próximo que achei foi a “Caipirinha Ventania” do nosso amigo @Mortandello . Então decidi criar esse tópico para discutirmos.

Primeiro vamos saber do que se trata a Lemon Tek:

Trata-se da desfosforilação da psilocibina em psilocina, catalizada por algum tipo de ácido.

Parece complicado, mas é basicamente o que acontece com a psilocibina no ácido do nosso estômago quando comemos os cogumelos. Com base nisso, criaram a Lemon Tek, que pode ser feita da seguinte maneira:

1 - Pulverizar cogumelos secos suficientes para sua trip. Se não puder pulverizar os cogumelos, corte eles do menor tamanho possível.
2 - Colocá-los num copo.
3 - Expremer quantos limões forem necessários para que o pó/pedaços de cogumelos fiquem submersos no suco de limão.
4 - Deixar a mistura reagir por 15~30 minutos, misturando-a a cada 5 minutos.
5 - A Lemon Tek está pronta.
Importante: Escrevi essa “receita” com base em várias outras, tentando atingir um resultado aceitável. Se quiser realmente fazer a Lemon Tek, sugiro que procure outras receitas.

Depois de pesquisar um pouco, cheguei as seguintes informações:

Com essa reação, estaria-se ingerindo apenas psilocina. Com isso, o organismo não teria que quebrar a psilocibina em psilocina e então ela estaria disponível imediatamente para absorção. Isso causa um onset bem mais rápido que o normal.

Lí relatos de que a potência pode aumentar de 2 a 3 vezes com a Lemon Tek, mas a trip dura menos. Em outras palavras, uma trip moderada que duraria 6 horas, na Lemon Tek seria uma trip forte com duração de 3h (Exemplo grosseiro, não teria como quantificar isso direito e também carece de fontes).

Gostaria de saber se alguém já usou ou costuma usar essa tek e se ela traz benefícios. Pretendo testá-la num futuro próximo.

A scientific look at the Lemon Tek: what’s right, wrong, and how to massively improve it (sourced!)

SEE EDIT AT BOTTOM—INTERESTING INFO–11/01/2022

This subreddit is the first place I am posting this, I’ll probably spread it to some forums as well–just know you guys are getting the first taste.

TLDR…

kinda towards the bottom where it says “THE NEW LEMON TEK RECIPE”…just read this shit. It took a while to type out and I have research I should be working on.

Ok, I am aware that so many people swear by the LemonTek method to quickly get a mushroom trip started with more intensity:

Grind mushrooms to powder

mix with enough lemon juice to cover totally, or more for good measure

Let sit for 15-20 mins for the citric acid in the lemon juice to help break down cell walls (to release their groovy content) turn the psilocybin (mostly a prodrug) in to psilocin(definitely a drug).

Let me point out a couple things here that are sound from a scientific standpoint.

Grinding up mushrooms physically ruptures and breaks up cell walls, allowing the groovy compound easy access to leave their fungal nurseries. Also, it increases the surface area of the fungi so that more of it is exposed to digestion at the same time.

Cell walls of fungi are primarily made up of Chitin and Chitosan with a mix of a few other compounds.1

The acid from the lemon juice does have an effect on the cell walls of the fungi. It helps in two ways. 1. It helps release the groovy compounds into the liquid by washing them out of the ground up groovy prison(mechanically disrupted cell walls).

More importantly, chitosan is can be dissolved by a weak acid(section 4.1)2. On the other hand, chitin is much harder to break down--it needs much stronger acids. It is more likely to break bonds holding the strands of chitin together--'shred' the cell walls, rather then dissolve them.2 So the acid sorta weakens the fungal walls, maybe makes some holes? I dunno I'm not a lemonteknologist.

Then after ingesting, lots of the groovies are already extracted and so they start getting metabolized all at once, giving you a bigger dose/sec. Huzzah.

THAT IS IT. That is all the parts of how lemon tek works that are likely/mostly totally correct. There is NO conversion of psilocybin to psilocin by way of acid and minimal conversion by any other way that is possible in that cup (magic? maxwell demons? machine elves?). The biggest factor in how it works is probably the finely ground starting material and extracting that into a liquid form. I’m guessing that there is a VERY high correlation between success with lemontek and the fineness of the fungal grind.

But people told me it works and I have experienced it and it works

Anecdotes are not data point in the sciences. Otherwise, we’d have proof of lizard people, god(s), ufos, and kettles orbiting near Saturn. However, the anecdotes do contain some basic elements of truth; especially when they agree on the same points: lemon-tek does work to a certain degree but for different reasons and it does so rather inefficiently. So…Bullshit, it doesn’t work the way people think and nowhere near as well as it could.

So here is the main points to address:

How is it then that psilocybin turns into psilocin? It's not acid like every one totally says it is!?

How can we BETTER actually extract the groovies from our powder you pompous ass??

Tell me about the psilocin (or skip to the next part, I don’t care)

For the first one–psilocybin is turned into psilocin by some molecular surgery performed by a couple specialists(via dephosphorization)3 that only are living in your body. Basically, these guys cut off a piece of the molecule that’s pretty big and there is another smaller molecule wandering about that hops in to fill the hole. (I’m talking about enzymes here–they do special functions and only those functions–remove the phosphate group here and then an OH- ion wanders because in the acidic environment, there is a big mix of H+ and OH- just hanging around). THAT is how you get psilocin out of psilocybin. This is why a lemontek trip still comes in waves, although more brief and close together. Not because there is more psilocin, but because the psilocybin still has to be turned into psilocin in your stomach. That is rate limited by how much of that enzyme you have sitting around–and more is made as it is needed.

Quick Edit: As one commenter pointed out–the process is much more involved with more steps and not only within the stomach–but this paraphrase here isn’t too far off. I believe more precise details are in those sources I provided…Also, it is kind of besides the point. The point is: It isn’t Acidic solution + Psilocybin = psilocin.

Alright smartass, what can I do to improve LemonTek??

Well, we were talking about enzymes earlier (oh you didn’t read that?). They can be our friend here. Chitin and it’s crew can be fucked up by something other than an acid. A lot of plants have evolved a special defense mechanisms against fungal (and other) invaders. The result of this process is the enzyme “chitinase” (enzymes almost always end in -ase). These enzymes are specifically shaped to attack and destroy chitin molecules–you can basically melt a mushroom or mycelia with this stuff–it breaks the cell walls down (Shaka, when the walls fell)5 . This means if you can get your hands on chitinase, you have something that can VERY effectively fungal cell walls, releasing the maximum amount of groovies into your extraction.

Get to the point, where can I get this shit

Bananas. Bananas are chock packed full of chitinase because they deal with fungal shit all the time.4 Hate bananas? No worries, kiwis will work, so will avocados.

THE NEW LEMON TEK RECIPE:

DO THE PREVIOUS LEMON-TEK

Take a bit of banana(kiwi,avocado,etc) and smash that shit up in your lemon-tek brew. Mix it all up and let it do its thing the same way. The chitinase in the fruit will absolutely wreck the cell walls of the fungi, releasing the maximum amount of psilocybin and psilocin into the lemon-juice (ehmm, to not be affected by the lemon juice other than to chill, until you're satisfied to drink it).

You said the lemon juice didn’t do anything why add it

Because, people are easily conditioned/biased; some are likely to feel like it didn’t work(for example, grooviness varies considerably from mushroom to mushroom) any better or at all. If you add the lemon juice, its like…you know a sports superstition. Edit: I am being facetious here haha, it does have an effect as I have pointed out–it just seems as though it could be much more efficient.

That’s it my friends. The sourced info behind lemon-teking:

The correct, the misconceptions, and how to turbo boost it to get the maximal effect that you want to be getting.

EDIT: Caveat Emptor! I didn’t look into how strongly acid affect beta glucans which sort of act as both a matrix and to ‘glue; chitin/chitosan. This may be another reason why lemon juice alone works well!! I definitely am open to corrections or anything overlooked–I know faaar less about everything than there is to know.

EDIT2(11/01/2022: A commenter found an awesome source which contains some information about phosphatase in citrus fruit 6–Credit to /u/thrownawayzawayz which I assume is a throw away :D. At any rate–there IS indeed some level of phosphatase in citrus fruit which definitely means some psilocybin would be converted into psilocin–the only question is how much? It seems like lemon juice will have the smallest effect due to what appears to be the lowest phosphatase. Navel oranges appear to have the highest levels of phosphatase but lower pH–I’d image a mix of lemon juice + navel orange would be the best mix of juices used for this then.